In this episode of The Social Leader, Fr. Justin Mathews talks with Murray Woodard II, Program Officer in Education for the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation. They talk about the importance of seeing the need or issue right in front of you — the one that might literally jump in front of your moving car in Murray’s case — and how compassionate leadership looks like listening and acting right away. When a resident of the Gabriel Tower Apartments, who had been without air conditioning for weeks sent out a plea for help, Murray said he knew he had to do something. It wasn’t his area of expertise, but sometimes social leadership looks like making the pressing issue in front of you your issue.
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EPISODE 13 — TRANSCRIPT
Father Justin Mathews: Everybody welcome to The Social Leader podcast, episode number 13. Our goal on this podcast is to help you learn to lead with greater social impact. I'm Father Justin Mathews, we've got a really special episode today. Real quick though before we begin, I want to let you know that today's podcast is presented by Reconciliation Services. We're a nonprofit social venture in Kansas City on Troost Avenue, working to cultivate a community seeking racial and economic reconciliation to reveal the strength of all. You can find out more about Reconciliation Services’ programs and even get involved, volunteer, or support our work at rs3101.org. Here we go, episode 13!
Alright, everybody, I want to welcome our special guest today, Murray Woodard. Welcome, Murray, how are you?
Murray: I'm doing well. Thank you, Father Justin, how are you doing?
Fr. Justin: It's so great to have you. For folks that don't know you or that are listening online, Murray, you're the Program Officer in Education for the Kauffman Foundation here in Kansas City. But in the last few days, Murray, you've been helping residents of the Gabriel Tower Apartments in Kansas City, Missouri. Working hard to bring attention to the plight of literally hundreds of older and disabled adults in Kansas City who've been without air conditioning and other essential services for weeks on some of the hottest days so far of the year here in Kansas City. I'm really grateful that you're that you're here with us and talking. I know a lot of people have been visiting with you. You've been doing Facebook Live posts. You've been all over the place and we've been friends for a long time. I just wanted to get a chance to bring you on so that you can share a little bit about what's going on. And it looks like you're actually in your car right now out front of the Gabriel Apartments. So tell us the situation. What have you been seeing? What have you been hearing?
Murray: Yeah, I am. I'm in my car right now sitting in front of Gabriel Apartments
waiting for the air to come back on. Essentially stumbled upon this situation Monday morning on the way back from a bike ride and residents were out in front protesting. One of the residents stepped out in front of my car essentially with a sign that said “we don't have air.” Pulled over to find out the residents in this 120+ unit tower hadn't had air for a little over three and a half weeks. After that, obviously, we learned that there's so many more problems here in the apartments themselves and we could talk a little bit about that shortly. So here working with residents and other community members that have really been here since we found out how to help keep pressure on the management company to help resolve this issue.
Fr. Justin: There's so much going on in Kansas City. There's so much going on all across the world. There are so many protests, so many things happening, that it gets overwhelming for people. But when you hear a story like this and you kind of begin to unpack the lived experience, it really brings it home. Could you tell us a story? You mentioned and introduced me earlier to the new tenant union president just elected yesterday. His name is Papi. Could you tell me what's going on? What are some stories? What did you see when you first got flagged down and walked in?
Murray: Papi’s not even the gentleman that flagged me down. A resident by the name of the LeeRoy flagged me down, but Papi was one of the first residents I met. And when I walked into the building on the first floor, first of all, the first thing I recognized was how hot it was. The second thing I recognized was the smell. And it was just because the trash has been backed up in the trash shoots for so long. But I saw Papi sitting there handwriting all the protest signs and I came to learn that he'd been organizing the residents in this building for some time to fight and try to get the word out about what was happening to them.
Fr. Justin: He's writing these signs like in a wheelchair though, right?
Murray: Yeah, Papi is in a motorized wheelchair, but a natural born leader. The union itself is newly formed. In fact, it's a day old. Papi was organizing the tenants in this building from day one. That was evident the first time I stepped foot in this tower.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, we always talk about that the solutions live in the community and I think that's like a little ephemeral for people. That's like academic. But I mean, this is a perfect example. Like Papi knew exactly what needed to be done. And sitting in a wheelchair wasn't going to hold him back, right? I think that's an amazing example of that. So when you walked in, I know you told me that you saw older adults in wheelchairs outside just trying to get a breath of fresh air. They're dripping in sweat. Like, what did you actually see when you walked in?
Murray: So, it was hot to me just outside. We've had 90 plus degree days, obviously, here in Kansas City. It feels a lot hotter than what the temperature is itself. And so to see the residents sitting out, some with oxygen tanks, several in motorized wheelchairs, and others in whatever types of seats they can find, sitting outside,to escape the heat inside. And I think that's what was interesting to me. They sat outside because the hot breeze out here was cooler and much more refreshing on them than sitting inside their building in this confined space with the heat and humidity they had going on in there.
Fr. Justin: It's like a big brick building. It’s huge. It’s like an oven!
Murray: Absolutely, nine stories building. I saw a couple of fans in the windows. Two of the residents had already went and purchased their own window AC units, which is actually against the lease agreement. They're not supposed to have those. They decided it was too hot and had those anyway. So I knew immediately we had to figure out something. There was just no way that I could ever imagine you'd have a facility this large serving this population of community members. Think about it. Individuals on oxygen tanks, struggling to breathe already, sitting inside of a home that's reaching upwards of 100 degrees inside.
Fr. Justin: So tell us who lives in the Gabriel Tower Apartments, like who's there? Who’s the population? Who is it who we're talking about?
Murray: I grew up in Kansas City. I always thought that this was just a facility for seniors. I've come to learn it's seniors and disabled individuals, as well. A lot of folks here have both physical and some have even developmental disabilities, in addition to seniors. But what you'll find is they're also families here and so I didn't expect to come in this building and see young people. There are school age kids here as well. And so we've had Kansas City Public Schools here to provide services and supplies and things of that nature to the students because we just had no idea that this building serves entire families. Like I said, I thought it was a senior center and there's much more than just seniors here.
Fr. Justin: Absolutely. Where is it located? Where are you right now?
Murray: Right on the corner, 1600 Jackson Avenue is the address. Right at the intersection of Jackson and Truman Road.
Fr. Justin: Okay, so what's being asked for and to be more specific, why haven't they gotten it? Where's the management company? What's being asked for and what's the problem?
Murray: Initially, I thought the ask, again, was just for air. What I'd noticed after being here is that they had so many more challenges, washers and dryers that weren't working, trash chutes that hadn't been emptied and trash had piled the way up to the chute, nearly the seventh floor, mold and water damage. So you had tons of demands far beyond just the air. Air is something I think most people can relate to, particularly in the summer. It was the first thing that I noticed on being here. As to those demands, last night they were able to meet with corporate. So several of those demands were either agreed to, some of them were met meaning they began doing some of the work, and the others they gave them a few weeks for completion. Examples would be like workable washers and dryers, they told them they'd have those by July 1. More immediately would be the trash chutes, they started some of their work yesterday. And then first and foremost, they told them that they expected to have AC on today, tomorrow at the latest. There were also a couple of demands that they had that were not met at this point. We demanded management change in the building. We didn't have management change. However, they did fire the service coordinator that the one individual in the building that was working with residents, working with the tenants, and providing some help over the past couple of days. She was fired today. They also asked for rent forgiveness.
Fr. Justin: Wait, why was she fired? Right? So wait, we're gonna go on but what was the deal? Because I know from watching your videos that there were a couple of people who were kind of taking down signs and trying to put down the protest or at least being told to do so by management. But you’re saying that there was actually somebody who was on staff who was a coordinator that was like an advocate and that person got fired?
Murray: Yeah, so maintenance workers, there's been at least two that I've noticed since I've been here for the past three days. The maintenance workers were taking down signs and informed me that they were instructed by management to do so. Something to the effect that it was blocking visibility in, in and out of the building, so they told them to take the signs down off the window, which, you know, we're okay with it. We just put the signs outside. But there was a service coordinator, Denise Williams, that the tenants really liked. She was working with them, helping them as best she could to resolve some of the issues, She even began making some other calls on their behalf to corporate. She was let go today. Today they walked her out about 30 minutes ago. She was asked to leave the premises with all of her things. There was a reason given to her and she informed the residents and me as well. They ran to my car, did not hear in the car on another call, and they said Denise is being fired. I ran to the door as she was leaving and I asked what happened. She said they told me they were letting me go essentially for helping the tenants. And so that's from her. I didn't get a chance to talk to management about it, obviously. They don't want to talk to me at this point. And so as you can expect, that was a huge blow to the morale of the tenants who have been protesting much longer than the three days I've been here.
Fr. Justin: How long has this been going on? I mean, because you were just driving by and somebody flagged you down, but how long have the residents been out there?
Murray: So that had been their first day outside. The residents have been making calls to the Health Department and then making calls to, according to some of the residents, to the news media. So there have been a number of attempts to reach out to community members to let them know what was going on. But Monday was the first day they protested publicly with signs outside. So it's quite interesting that the first day they stepped out happened to be the day I'm driving down the street.
Fr. Justin: And what were you thinking? You work at Kauffman. You work in education, first of all. Is housing and tenants rights, like something you work on all the time, or were you just driving by and stopped?
Murray: No, no, not at all. Not at all. I was driving by and happened to stop. I was driving by on accident, in fact, expecting to hit the highway. I was bike riding on Cliff Drive, grabbed coffee at the corner, and was headed back home. No, this is definitely not in my wheelhouse at all. When someone flagged you down especially with a sign that says “we don't have air” and I knew from my bike ride, it was almost 90 degrees already that day. After pulling over and listening to the stories of residents, I didn't know what I could do or know what was possible, but I knew I had to do something.
Fr. Justin: I think that's an incredible example. This podcast, Murray, is all about trying to inspire everyone, but especially people who are wanting to make a social impact in every different sector. Trying to inspire them and lift up the possibility that we all can be social leaders. We just have to begin somewhere. I think you're giving a super tangible example. You might see something on the news, you might see protests, and you might kind of go to bed at night scratching your head and saying, “I don't know what to do, what do I do?”, but so often, it's right in front of you. You're driving down the road going to the highway, you see a sign. You had a choice. Do I pass by? Not to get too biblical, although I am one that’s wearing the collar but it feels like the story of the Good Samaritan, exactly like that moment. Am I gonna pass by this person who's beaten down on the side of the road like the others? Or am I going to be the one to stop? And you stopped. And I think that that's really, really inspiring for all of us who want to do something but don't know where to begin. You begin by listening and looking. I want to ask you a question. We had Colleen Hernandez on a couple of episodes ago, just a week or two ago to talk about kind of the larger issue of tenants rights, to talk about poverty and COVID and affordable housing and we kind of stayed at a bigger systemic level. And you're bringing this like very much to the tangible to the nitty gritty, but what system is failing here? Just from your perspective? I know you're not a housing expert. What is failing here?
Murray: I try not to be critical. After spending the last couple of days here, I think every system is really failing these folks here. I mean, if you think about it, several of the tenants here have a social worker, case workers come in and out of this building regularly. So I'm trying to wrap my mind around how you can come in and out of this building, not see the same things that I saw the first day I walked in here on Monday. When you've had the health department, and I think they said they had seven or eight complaints, and the health department had come in on seven or eight occasions since January and resolved the issues that they came out for. But it only takes looking down the hall in the opposite direction to see the other hundred issues in this place. And so I think this is a management company that's obviously dropped the ball and completely neglected residents, but they don't own the building. So I just think there's so many systems that failed these residents here. And then I think part of it is that most communities have invisible residents. And I think that's the case here. Our city's doing a lot in terms of revitalization. We look at all the shiny new toys we have. This building isn’t new. I grew up on 21st Street. This building has been on this corner longer than I've been alive. And so we've seen it as community members as well. And I ask myself how many times have I driven past this building and not stopped in?
Fr. Justin: Well, what keeps us from stopping though? Are we afraid? Are we callous? I have to believe most of us with exceptions, but most of us aren't callous to it. We want to do something, but what keeps us from stopping or from seeing or addressing the uncomfortable?
Murray: I actually agree with you. I actually think most of us are not callous. I think it's just because we may not have the answer or we think the issue or the challenge in front of us is insurmountable. To be honest with you, when I walked in there, and I saw all the challenges facing this place, even somebody like me that works at the Kauffman Foundation, knows people across the city, I had no idea if I'd be able to do anything to help here.
Fr. Justin: What thought was crossing your mind? What was that fork in the road playing out in your mind?
Murray: I sat in my car before I made the Facebook post and asked myself, “okay, after you do this, even if other folks respond immediately, it's now on you to do something to follow up.” I think that was the fear. If I post this, I send it out, no one else responds, I still have to do something because I've seen it. And I understand that most people probably come to that place and I see why that can be paralyzing. Again there was a question. After you look into the eyes of the residents here that's telling you their problems, showing you what they're dealing with on a day to day then, you have to make a decision: Do you walk away with that and keep quiet? Or do you do something about it?
Fr. Justin: What tipped you over the edge? What did you do? What did you think before you hit that send button on the post on Facebook? How did you make that decision? Because I'll be honest, a lot of us come to that crossroad. I'm driving to the red light and I see the guy who needs money or I see the ad on TV or I see the protest. And then we still don't do something. What did you do to kind of push yourself to that next step? Because you didn't have to.
Murray: I look back at the work we do every day in education, right? So although this is definitely not my bailiwick here. I work in education every day and I see the challenges there. And I always talk to people about being advocates and those who have agency, those who have social capital, helping to amplify the voices of those that are not being heard, right? I don't believe that there are people that are voiceless, I just think they're either people that aren't being heard for whatever reason or people are not listening. So I ask myself how can I do that in one area of my life? How can I be critical of people who don't stand up and do that in the areas that I work in and the places that I see and I care about every day? It’s the same thing here. How can I walk away after seeing this and not do anything about it? So I made the decision for myself that even if I didn't get the response that I received on Facebook, even if the organizations didn’t come out and provide the assistance that they needed, even if it meant I sit in my car and I call Millennia myself all day, all night. I think that's what it was for me. It didn't matter at that point if anyone else helped, I made the decision at that point in time that I was going to do what I had to do, even if that meant I had to be here, which I am and which I have been until they get air.
Fr. Justin: For which I'm very thankful. I know the residents are thankful. But I'm thankful that you're lifting up that example of somebody who's not even working in the housing sector just driving by and you made the decision, because it's important. For those of you who are watching live right now, there's a comment from Bonnie Johnston, who said, “I think people are self involved and fearful to step up into the unknown.” You talked about fear. Talk about the unknown. Talk about why would that feel like a place that's unknown?
Murray: Well, if we're talking about education, I could talk circles around that all day. That's what I do. We talk about philanthropy, we could talk about that all day. You talk about housing, I'm a fish out of water. I don't know much about this. Then there's the other fear. You understand this issue intersects with a lot of the same spaces that I do intersect with on a day to day. So then there was that fear, right? Maybe someone might be upset about us calling this out, someone that I need in my area of work, somebody that I have to engage with on a day to day. Maybe contacting the health department and having them come down there and highlighting that might not go over well. Those are those points where you second guess. You start to think “how can this impact me in the work I do every day?” and so I had that. I had no idea what posting that on Facebook would do, whether or not people respond and step up here or what they can do in my everyday life.
Fr. Justin: You're a perfect example of a social leader. Because I don't think social leaders wait for the perfect platform in order to respond, you respond to what's right in front of you, what comes in front of you, because that person in front of you, as a living icon, they're worthy of profound and authentic veneration, respect, and dignity. And so there's this idea of whatever comes in front of you is the providence of what's been put in front of you to deal with. And so we sit around waiting for the perfect platform. I don't think we're going to do anything. I really appreciate, also, that you brought out this important nuance. You said that there might be some people that would be kind of ticked if I called on this and there are people that I kind of need for my professional life. Talk more about that. That's difficult for a lot. Let's think about business owners who are trying to decide whether or not to post a hashtag BLM or like to stand up at a protest. They're making that exact calculation. How did you get to that point and then step over the line when you thought about those donors or those business folks?
Murray: I think it was easy because, at least for me, I kept what was most important. I think that's the residents. I do understand and I did understand at the time and had to deal with the fact that, I mean, someone lost their job as a result of this, right? Denise Williams lost their job today. And also there was also the concern that if other individuals, whether it be the health department or some other officials walked into this facility, saw the way this building has been neglected and these residents have been treated, they’d close this facility down. Then people are homeless as a result of you bringing this out. Where do they go if that happens? There's a concern because there's 120 units in here, but the reality is there's about 50 to 60 residents that have been very active and very vocal. What happens if there's some retaliation and they get fired? Like all of these things come to mind. I get to go home after this. When this is over, I get to go back home. I don't worry about me being evicted as a result of speaking out. I do worry about some of the people that may or may not be impacted that intersect my world in some way, shape, or form, but I don't worry about being evicted as a result of this. I don't worry about the retaliation that way. I did worry about me speaking up meant for me on a variety of different levels.
Fr. Justin: Well, I'm glad the residents were speaking up for weeks and I'm glad you chose to join them and add your voice too. I think when we think about conversations around privilege and access and power, you're demonstrating the exact thing. When we know that we've got something, some access, some privilege, some voice, some power, it may not be the same as somebody else's, but use what you've got. Paint with the colors on your palette. Let me ask you another question. You're a very humble man, I've known you in your life. You're not the guy that's going to take to Facebook all the time. I'm just telling you that, if you don't know Murray, he's not that guy. But you're a very strong leader. How do you keep the focus on the people and not on yourself while you're also raising up this issue as a social leader? How do you do that?
Murray: I think that's very important if you do any type of social justice work. I think it’s important to recognize that this is their fight, the residents. This is their fight. This was their protest, not mine. When the news media rolled up several times, it was very important for us to have tenants out front. This is about amplifying their voice, not being a voice for anyone, amplifying the voices that were already there. In fact, if this conversation today not been about leadership, if it was specifically about this, I wouldn't have wanted to do this today.
Fr. Justin: I remember we were just talking to Papi right before we came on. We were actually trying to see if we could get him somehow on here with you so he could be the one to speak kind of the issues but he didn't want to be on the internet, which is good and I respect that.
Murray: It's important to understand that this is their fight. The same thing should be said about the support that was received. There's been a number of news reports that talk about Saturday Night Live star that donated money. But the reality of the situation is the reason why we were able to supply fans to every resident here had nothing to do with that. This was community members who jumped at the opportunity to support this work here. It was local restaurant owners who were willing to help offset some of the costs for us to be able to provide meals. Pizza Hut split costs for dinner last night. And so, although it's not as bright and shiny as saying, “get a Hollywood star from Kansas City that donated” it's more important to know that this was community support and the community was supporting the residents. And therefore, it wasn't a Hollywood star supporting Murray in his fight.
Fr. Justin: Well, I know the fight isn't over. I know from just talking to you today before we came on that there's still things that haven't been met. There's still needs that are essential you were about to get to those earlier on in the show. What's left to be done and how can people help?
Murray: So what's left to be done is a number of things. More importantly, getting the air on today, tomorrow at the latest is what they said. If they don't, as a community, we really need to rally around this facility and make sure that it happens. That’s first and foremost. A second thing is they don't have work in washers and dryers. They've agreed to have that done by July 1. There's mold on a lot of the floors, there's trash. I think we need, as a community, to make sure we continue to wrap our arms around Gabriel Towers even after the AC is flicked on. We need to continue to check in. I posted a list of demands and the agreements and the things still outstanding on Facebook. I'll share that with you again if you want to blast it out. And we need to continue to check in and make sure that that happens. And if you want to provide support now that they have unionized, you can reach out to KC Tenants. And if you do happen to come down to the Towers, ask for Papi, James Stone. He's the president of the tenants union and that man is an angel. But he's definitely working to get this done and he's fighting.
Fr. Justin: The thing that really strikes me, especially since we're broadcasting this within really just days of the murder of George Floyd and others, is that the Gabriel Towers Apartments is really just one example of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of units and there is a real need not only for the Gabriel Towers, but there's a real need for us as communities really all across the United States, in fact, across this globe, to really band together. There's that old story of Stone Soup that everybody puts in the pot what they have and then by the end of the time, even though the pot started empty, there's enough for everybody. What you're doing down there is really chipping in what you have. And I love to hear the story of all these different ones, but especially those who don't really have a name or a big corporate name, that have chipped in what they can one fan, $1, whatever it is, that kind of donate-what-you can model is something obviously that we're really passionate about at Reconciliation Services. So thank you. Thank you for being willing to come on and share it. Thank you for stopping the other day. Thank you for lifting up the powerful voices of those in the community who are just trying to have air conditioning like most of the rest of us. I think it's a pretty simple thing. In today's day and age and especially for older adults, it's a pretty essential thing. You hear about it every single summer about older adults who die alone in their homes of heat exhaustion. So thank you for being willing to stop, Murray.
Murray: Thank you for having me.
Fr. Justin: Absolutely. All right, hang with me for just a minute. We'll be right back. Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that again, if you want to help, you can go down to the apartment building, you can go on Facebook. A couple of people will be sharing out the address, as well. I know of one organization, KC Tenants, that's doing a good job of lifting up the voices of the residents there. I'm sure there are lots of other people that are down there working too. I don't actually know all of the names, but this is the time to act. So if you aren't here in Kansas City, look somewhere in your city. There's a Gabriel Tower Apartments somewhere in your community. There's a Papi who's in a wheelchair making signs by hand and has a voice and you have something to lend and then together the two of you can really get something done. And so that's what social leadership is all about. You don't have to be a nonprofit leader. You don't have to be a pastor. You don't have to be a philanthropist or independently wealthy. Sometimes you might just be a guy in a car driving by and you stop for a minute and you never know what will happen. So, again, I want to thank Murray Woodard, our really special guest today. Thanks especially the residents of the Gabriel Tower Apartments for your endurance and your witness. And for everyone here, if you've enjoyed this podcast, please do me a favor. First of all, thank you for listening today. But please follow the podcast on YouTube, iTunes, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And it would really help us if you'd share the show with more people so that we can lift up the voices of those in the community and especially those social leaders who are trying to make a difference. You can also tune in to watch the show live almost every Tuesday around 12:30pm central usually. If you want to go further and learn to lead with greater social impact, I want to encourage you to check out TheSocialLeader.org. Pretty soon we're going to be launching an e-course called The Social Leader Essentials. It's a great way to just begin the process of learning how to do what Murray did and and learn some of the fundamentals and the basics of how you can embrace social leadership in addition to whatever else you're doing in your life. So once again, thanks for joining us here. This show is sponsored by Reconciliation Services. I look forward to talking with you next time on The Social Leader podcast.