In this episode of The Social Leader, Fr. Justin talks with Kansas City, Missouri, Mayor Quinton Lucas, about leading in unity in times of crisis and always looking for the common ground.
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EPISODE 5 - TRANSCRIPT
Fr. Justin Mathews: Well, good morning, my friends. Welcome to episode number five of The Social Leader. I’m super honored to have Mayor Quinton Lucas with us as our special guest today. You are not gonna want to miss this conversation about social leadership and life in Kansas City when people are hunkering down under COVID. We'll talk a little bit about coming out of that situation and get a deeper understanding of Mayor Quinton and his leadership. Don't go away.
Fr. Justin: Well welcome, Mayor Quinton.
Mayor Quinton Lucas: Hey, how are you? I'm happy to be with everybody.
Fr. Justin: Good morning. My special guest today is Mayor Quinton Lucas. He is the former third district councilman, our district right here in Kansas City on Troost Avenue. He's a law school professor, a community leader, 55th Mayor of Kansas City. Mayor Lucas, we're super honored to have you on the program today. Thanks so much for being here.
Mayor Lucas: It is great to be with you all. Thank you all for watching and listening today and certainly supporting Reconciliation Services.
Fr. Justin: Absolutely. Thank you for being a long time supporter of Reconciliation Services and our work on Troost. Well, I want to jump in today because I know that our time is really precious and that you've got a lot going on obviously right now. I want to talk a little bit about when everything feels out of order. Because we are under a stay at home order in Kansas City and across the country. You've got so many stories, I'm sure. I'd love to know, from your perspective, what do you see that's bringing us together right now, Mayor Lucas?
Mayor Lucas: I think that there is this amazing thing across all ages where people recognize and they actually care about their neighbor or somebody that they don't even know. I've been impressed by how many 20-somethings, teenagers have talked to me about how I'm doing this because I think it's important to keep somebody else in my family, somebody else in my community safe. So I know a lot of the news attention is about negativity, we're talking about a virus, we’re talking about death. But I think as all of us know, in many ways, when you go through these journeys, you see what is the greatest in a lot of people in our community and in ways that we didn't know before, so I've been really impressed by that and proud of it.
Fr. Justin: I know that you're all over the city and that everyone's asking you for your leadership and asking you to kind of keep that steady hand. Is there a story in the last couple of weeks that really stands out to you about how Kansas City and our region has really come together in this time of crisis, something special about our region and our city that you've seen?
Mayor Lucas: I think I'm going to go all the way back to when we announced our stay at home orders. I was pretty aggressive and out front early on Kansas City, doing a lot of these emergency orders. We canceled large events, all types of stuff. But we recognized that we needed to speak with one voice and that was that core fuor press conference: myself; the leaders of Johnson County, Kansas County; Wyandotte County, Kansas; and Jackson County, Missouri. 1.5 million people represented by that group. And if you didn't know the demographics, Ed Eilert is an older white dude, David Alvey a little younger, Frank White about double my age man of color, and you know, it was interesting because all of us came from our different traditions, our very different politics, and said this is a big deal, and I think let the community know it was a big deal. At a time, perhaps, when the national and state conversations were a little more fluid, I think it made a real positive and it showed the community it was time for us to get together. So I was proud of that step.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, I remember I actually left for spring break, drove to Colorado, like a lot of folks in the region do. I had an emergency board meeting on the way to Colorado. I saw the mountains in the far distance and I turned right around with my family. We came back within 24 hours. And it was a whirlwind. And I remember just thinking to myself, we're going to have to close Thelma’s Kitchen, we're going to have to close all of our partner/guests corporate sponsor work that we do at Reconciliation Services. This is going to have a massive impact on the community in terms of hunger, in terms of stability, in terms of just the kind of life that we're going to be living, no matter how long it lasts. And I remember being really impressed that you and all those folks that you named, you stood up, and you took the bull by the horns and you said, this is what we're going to do. And you did it with a positive spirit. And I really appreciated that leadership that you offered, and I think it did bring comfort to the community. It makes me think, though, as a relatively young mayor, and at the outset, really at the very tippy top of your very first term as mayor in Kansas City, you immediately faced this massive pandemic crisis that has economic impact, civic impact, impact on all the things that you care about. How do you decide in your leadership who to listen to? What voices are important, and sort of on a personal level, what helps you keep that true north when you are leading right now?
Mayor Lucas: SoI'll start with a true north point. Whether I've been in office, whether I was practicing law, whether I was a student, you do have to always remember why you were there. And I ran for office largely because I wanted to make sure that we were looking out for the most vulnerable in our society, in our population, and in our city. And you know, it has been challenging throughout this process. On the day we did the stay at home order, the number of calls I got from people that said, “What in the heck are you doing? Everybody is confused. This is the worst thing ever. Lucas, I thought you had a future and you'll be a one termer.” And then as we've continued, particularly now, even to this point, when people are saying, “we need to open up society immediately, you're strangling every business” and all of that you have to remember who you're looking out for and you have to think back to that vulnerable person. You have to think back to the fact that there are, and you work with them too, Father Justin, thousands of Kansas Citians without good access to healthcare, who have pre existing conditions, who don't have a regular relationship with a physician. And what I can't just say is, you know, let the strong survive. That's the opposite of my faith tradition. That's the opposite. Even if you don't have a faith tradition, that's the opposite of, I think, what core humanity is. I think that we continue to be in a position where we can help save lives, help improve lives, and I think that is outweighing some of the costs. Now, I know that there are substantial economic costs, and indeed, we work in the business of trying to address those as well. But I know that those are the sorts of things that we can address tomorrow, next week, next year. What I can't address is somebody who's lost a loved one. What I can't do is cure some of those things where we've already had dramatic tragedies. And so that's really been my guidance. In terms of the data we use. I listen to experts, I listen to physicians, I listen to health care people. I think that's what we are supposed to do. I get politics, I know, I won an election or two. But at the same time, I think it's more important that we're listening to them and we figure out the politics thereafter.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, you make some really good points. If I could push you a little bit, a lot of us who have been in leadership, particularly people who are senior leaders or divisional leaders in Kansas City, or even community leaders, particularly in the third district where people are really struggling to survive and succeed. Leaders always face crisis, and they say it's lonely in leadership. Are there some practices that you keep on a daily basis as a leader that helps you keep your focus personally? Are there one or two things that you could recommend to people who are listening in the community who are trying to lead right now? How do you keep going? What keeps you strong?
Mayor Lucas: One of the parts of our order that I think was important, and I've kind of made sure I fought for this, was the ability for people to go outside, go to the parks, to get fresh air. That has always been important to me. If you follow me on social media, you see I post a lot of pictures of sunsets. Maybe it's because I'm hokey, maybe it's because I'm from the middle of the country and I don't have a mountain or an ocean to stare at, but it gives me this moment to think about the world as being bigger than me. Right? You see the sun, you see the cloud, you see the storms come in, and you realize you're but one small part of this gigantic ecosystem of things and time. And I think finding those moments of peace are essential to me almost every day and I always try to do that. There was a gentleman online, as social media folks are wont to do, who engaged with me and said, “how dare you actually be posting pictures of sunsets when people are struggling?” I responded to him and noted that sunsets are something that all of us share. You can be having the cruddiest day, the happiest one, the richest person, the poorest. It's something that's uniting us all and something greater than us. And so that's usually been a good thing for me. In terms of relationships, I like to talk to my mom sometimes and get her view on the world. She's not an insider and so it's usually just a pretty direct companion, which is something that I enjoy. And then finally, we all have special people in our lives, and making sure you're taking time to care about what it is they're talking about. I think where leaders go wrong, is when we start to shun our families. I see some who start to shun their children and say, “I don't have time over the next six months because it's the biggest deal ever.” You can't do that. You have to realize that part of you being at your best is making sure that those who care the most about you are part of your world too. And so I try to make sure I remember that.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, you bring up some good points. I think the idea of just really keeping centered and remembering like, what is good, what is beautiful, what is true. And keeping those things in front of us, as leaders helps us to keep that perspective. And then also, just talking about family and talking about priorities. When we were going into this COVID crisis, and really, as you were beginning your term as mayor, there were a lot of priorities that were on the table. Everything from workforce development, to housing, to free transit, all the work with small business, everything that you had sort of on the docket and queued up and ready to go. As we come out, no matter how much time it's gonna take, whether it's the 3rd or the 15th or later, when we come out of this COVID pandemic and the lockdown, what do you think are the opportunities? We went into this whole situation with a lot of priorities, particularly around diversity, equity, inclusion business, those big weighty priorities and people tended to say, we can't do that, we can't do free transit, we can't do better with housing. Do you see an opportunity right now to kind of shift the priorities in Kansas City coming out of this? And if so, which ones and how?
Mayor Lucas: Yes, I think we do have that opportunity and the way we do it is this: that everyone recognizes how connected we are. Everyone also recognizes that our federal government, our state, and our local governments, are bailing out businesses with the highest paid CEOs and individuals who are at the opposite side of the income scale. And so I think it creates more of a conversation around what's important for our communities. I appreciate that conversation and I think it will encourage us to say, all right, for example, you know, a lot of our social services organizations took it on the chin over the last month and a half, were not able to have big fundraisers, have not been able to do any number of things, but I think certainly in Kansas City as we were dealing with this crisis, we said, “Well, gosh, what about the homeless population? What about support for them? What about summer activities as a society reopens, and parents go back to work, but perhaps you don't have summer school classes that are meeting? What does that all look like?” And so, I think the fact that so many of us will need to address that is an important moment for us to sit back and say, “okay, what's worked, what hasn't?” I think another thing that is vital for us is to evaluate how we do things. A lot of us have had our workplaces changed. Even those of us who were office based workers are often sitting at home. It gives you in some ways, more time, less commuting time, that sort of thing. My thought might be, how do we turn that into something positive? How do we recognize that, with perhaps less travel time, less in person at the office time, we can find more time for our nonprofits, we can find more time for our community. That's the sort of work that I think is before us now. And I think we should try to push that and see how that impacts us in different areas.
Fr. Justin: One of the things that you mentioned was just the struggle of businesses, the struggle of nonprofits and I know at Reconciliation Services, there's sort of this double sided coin. On the one hand, we're seeing over 5,000 people this year. We literally are serving over 350 meals every single day, Monday through Friday. That's more than double what we were serving in terms of hungry people. And the other thing I'll share with you is that we kind of have our ear to the rail, maybe in advance of the statistics, because we see who's coming. And it's not just the homeless, there are actually a lot of voices that are going unheard. Just yesterday I spoke with a woman who had been a maintenance tech at a big law firm here in town, she got let go. I spoke with another person who is a painter, solopreneurs, and then of course we have the homeless and those who aren't sheltered and can't shelter in place. As you think about all of those voices in Kansas City, do you think that there are some voices that haven't been heard yet? Or that aren't being heard loud enough in the media? And which ones do you think need to be heard more clearly?
Mayor Lucas: I think you do make an outstanding point, which is that we forget the middle a lot in America, because I think since the 1980s, we've all seen this giant middle class, which our country does have. We tend to not think about people that are still struggling each day to stay where they are, to take care of their families, and that it's a much bigger group than one might imagine. And so, you know, I think that we need to hear from any folks that, in essence. I'll just say we need to hear from the storytellers. We need the people that actually are sharing the messages of our community. One thing that I think is lost in this political moment is that a lot of days there's this “are you with the president or are you on another side? Do you see things this way? Is this whole thing a hoax over done? Is this the world's greatest calamity of all time?” And I'm not going on Mayor Pete on you and saying just be in the middle, but what I am going to say is, it's important for us to listen. It's important for me to listen. I gave out my cell phone number to everybody in Kansas City a while back and I've been asked a few times whether I regret it, and the answer is no. Yeah, some people will be obnoxious and all of that, but you know, you just put your phone on silent and keep living. But what's interesting for me is how many people, even if they want me to open up everything tomorrow, really just want me to hear their story, to hear about their challenge, to hear how tough it is to take care of their two or three children right now. And for me, that allows me to say yeah, I may not do the remedy that you want, but that doesn't mean that doesn't allow me to look more broadly at what are other remedies that are good for you. We have this small business relief fund that was in the paper for not paying out money enough, which is the nature of government. But the reason that fund was created, and that's one of my proudest steps along the way, as soon as I started issuing orders about shutting down our economy, I recognize there'd be people not that needed, you know, $300,000, but they needed $10,000. They needed $5,000. That said, “well, yeah, maybe I can handle being shuttered, but I still have to pay my insurance on the building this month” or “I still have to pay my utilities.” It's that barber somewhere. It's someone like that. And those are the sorts of people I want us to hear more from, because I think that's where so many of our answers in society can happen.
Fr. Justin: What encouragement would you give to the side hustlers? There's a lot of people who don't officially yet have businesses. In particular, in the community that we serve, low and moderate income families, there are a lot of people who have that side hustle that's actually the difference between making rent, getting food, getting medicine, even with the support that they might get from a social service agency like ours. What do we do about those folks who were mowing lawns? And who had those side hustles going? What would you say to them? And what resources are going to be available for them as they move forward so their families can survive and succeed?
Mayor Lucas: I'll get a little egg head on this and then I'll come back to a normal answer. A few years ago I had the fortune of studying abroad in South Africa, an experience that in many ways changed my life. Because it was the first time, and I always knew about people who hustled, but over there like 40% of the economy are people that are in what they call the informal sector, or in essence are side hustling, not on your normal tax rolls, not with business licenses, anything like that, but are surviving each day, some well, some not so well. It was interesting because the public policy maker there always has to work on ways to address that population. I think in America we've always had it, but we've never addressed so many of those people, that there are folks that are getting by.
And so I would say there are a few things that I think we need to do. One of which is to make sure that we don't create such a huge bureaucracy so that the only people that can ever sign up for any services or assistance are either big companies, people represented by lawyers, or people that have that level of business sophistication that veers more towards the elite than it does everyone else. I think we also need to make sure that to the extent we're providing services, we're looking at individuals. We're not just basing things on you've been a Kansas City business for three years and you've paid all these taxes and that sort of thing. We need to say, “how can we help people and meet more people where they are?” I think another thing is that we need to really engage old fashioned community organizers and community institutions in helping us channel where we can find ways to assist. City Hall, God love us, is not necessarily the best at handing out social welfare grants, nor should we be necessarily. I think working with organizations that are doing that important work is the best way we can make sure that we are not actually missing huge groups of people. Because all of us have our biases. When I come up with a grant or something and if it was Quinton Lucas handing it out, I would go to places that I know, people that I know, I'd ask my family folks and all of that,” hey, where should I go?” And that's great for people who are in my world and it's part of what diversity is about. But you want to get to community organizations because they see so many more. Right, Father Justin? I’ve been at Thelma’s Kitchen and talked to people who do not live right at 31st and Troost, that came from far away, somewhat surprising, who heard about. And so those are the sorts of things, the organizations with which we need to work to make sure we’re actually addressing these issues long term.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, I appreciate you bringing up Thelma’s Kitchen because when we went into this crisis, we already had one in eight people in this city, particularly in Jackson County, who were suffering from food insecurity with massive wait lines for housing. And I know housing is something that you've really tried to champion. And as this crisis is going on, it's made national news, but I'll be honest with you, I've seen it locally, particularly in Kansas City, that there's a pretty significant disparity, particularly around racial lines in Kansas City. What do you feel like we need to do in Kansas City specifically? What lessons have we learned and what should we change to address those systemic issues of inequity of racial inequity and economic inequity? What do you think we do coming out of COVID-19 to try to address those things?
Mayor Lucas: I think we have a few options. One: we have to make sure that we don't move on too quickly. American society has this way of saying, “thank God that's over, let's part!” And I get that. I'm human too. I want to, as soon as they tell me I can safely, I want to go to a baseball game, take a vacation, and all that. But we need to make sure that we don't forget, in some ways, what got us here. And we're missing the point if we say it's a virus. You've studied theology much more than I have and the story of the plagues isn't necessarily just about what an interesting plague, right? It's about human reactions to it, human responses and what lessons we take from that. And for us, I think we need to make sure that we see okay, how was our health system inadequately prepared to address this issue? How did the virus, as it struck our community and continues to strike our community, hit people on a disproportionate basis? Frankly, how does the economic crisis that we're facing hit people on a disproportionate basis as it aligns with socioeconomic status and race? And then we need to think about, okay, how do we attack that? How can we make sure that if a lot of people are dealing with housing insecurity, for example, that we can give them enough actual stability such that they don't fear that one month of living behind on rent will mean that their family’s homeless? How will we make sure that there will still be access to food in the event that school lunches are harder to get? Those are the sorts of things that we need to work on and frankly, that we need to incorporate into our costs of government. One of the more controversial things I did, but I'm so proud that I picked this fight. So we proposed the city budget in Kansas City before COVID-19 broke. And then we got COVID-19 and everybody said, “oh, all the money is going to be gone. We need to change and just vote last year's budget.” I fought against that, for one very simple reason, because we've worked so hard to get peanuts in the budget for things like affordable housing, for rental assistance. We got money for zero fare transit, not enough, but we did that. And I didn't want those gains to be lost. Because I was scared that if we didn't get them in this budget, they wouldn't be in next year because we don't have money, they wouldn't be in the year after or the year after. Too often these things are placed on the back burner. We need to make sure they’re priorities
Fr. Justin: Right now the buses, as I understand them from our neighbors and from being right here at 31st and Troost which is a major transit corridor, during the COVID crisis, and I don't know for how long, they're going to be free in Kansas City for people. Do you feel like in some way that the COVID-19 situation actually was able to advance some of the more innovative priorities that you wanted to bring forward with regard to housing and transportation? And how do you think that they're going to fair afterwards? Are they going to last after the COVID crisis lifts?
Mayor Lucas: I have been impressed with how quickly we saw that we can adapt and we can find funding to support it. I think that some will last, some will not. Where they last, it's important for us to make sure they're pushed. Zero fare transit is going to be one of those priorities. I think housing, frankly, is going to be another one of those priorities. For the first time in years, the federal government has given us more money for affordable housing. How amazing is that? What we have to make sure we do is resist the temptation to blow it quickly on one project or to the cutest deal that helps us fill a gap somewhere in downtown or even east of downtown and instead saying, wait, wait, wait, let's be methodical about whom we're building this for. That's the work that I'm most interested in. And I think that's what we're going to need to do in connection with this going forward.
Fr. Justin: I appreciate you sharing those things, particularly about transit, because transit is such a major piece of the workforce development equation in Kansas City, but so also is violence and gun violence is something that you've written legislation around. You fought hard to try to reduce the level of violence. First of all, tell me, what have you seen in Kansas City with regard to violence since the stay at home order? Has it increased? Has it decreased? Is it staying the same? What have you been able to tell about that?
Mayor Lucas: I think there have been a few things. So, broadly violent crime is down in Kansas City, but like always, we have negatives in a few key areas: murders and domestic violence. We've seen a spike in domestic violence and we've seen a frustrating consistency in homicides. That gives us one kind of clear answer. That tells us that the issue of violent crime isn't necessarily about people being in a bar or the groups. But instead it's more internalized. It is, perhaps, the pain that you have in a community. And it's actually the relationships and the friction that we have between different gangs and individuals and others, the need for revenge. Well, that tells me is violence is much more internalized. It's much more than increasing police patrols, right? Because there ain't that much to patrol right now. Instead it's actually something that's more about getting inside those root causes of violence.
Fr. Justin: When you talk about root causes though, Mayor, what about mental health? I know that you and I have had lunch at Thelma’s Kitchen before and a lot of attention is paid to things that are incredibly important, like housing. But, you know, at the root of things isn't mental health really being highlighted right now? Don't we, as a city, have a need to address the serious trauma and mental health issues? How are we going to come out of this situation differently with regard to mental health?
Mayor Lucas: Isn't one of the funniest things that we've seen the fact that a lot of people who want us to reopen very quickly have been the ones that have said, “well, and there's gonna be an increase in suicides and mental health issues and all of that.” I love the fact that people care about crime and mental health and all of that. We've got to fund it. We've got to fund it better. We have got to treat it on a level that's commensurate with our investment sometimes in hospitals. I say hospitals versus public health, right? We don't spend nearly enough in public health, but we do actually spend a lot on the healthcare industry. We've got to say that it is as important for us to talk about mental health as it is to talk about health insurance and the insurance business, of which our biggest companies in this region are leaders. And so I hope that the next step and the next phase is how do we expand access to those mental health services? Because you're absolutely right. We're digging sideways in a ditch if we think that we're going to find some way out of it by just not investing in mental health. By the way, that relates to everything ranging from those with housing insecurity, homelessness, violent crime, so many other issues that we deal with each day in our city.
Fr. Justin: I know you and I would agree on this, but it's hard to actualize these priorities. People go to jail not just because they commit a crime, but they commit a crime because there's something underneath that they're trying to solve, or there's trauma, or there's undealt with issues. People lose housing or lose jobs because they don't have the mental health stability to be able to maximize and sustain the opportunities. It's good to teach a man to fish and you can build a pond, you can build them a cabin next to the pond, and they can fish all day, but if they're too depressed to get up the next morning and go fish after you leave, we've wasted even all of that training. I know that you and I agree on that and I know our time is also limited. So we'll have to pick this conversation up about mental health some other time. I'd love to do that to figure out how we are going to innovate and how we're going to fund in the areas of mental health in the same ways that we've been trying to innovate and fund civic development and other priorities. I want to kind of end on a personal note with you, Mayor Quinton, because you grew up, as you've shared very publicly, at times homeless. I've met your mother, she's a wonderful woman, but you told me when you were growing up that you guys lived in a hotel, you were really struggling. And in that your childhood, in that area, was very much like those who are struggling to survive and succeed under the lockdown order outside of employment right now in Kansas City. When you think about the kids that are like Quinton, that are out there right now, and the single moms, that are like your mom, what message would you give them? How would you give them some hope so that they can get through this crisis?
Mayor Lucas: There are always brighter days. And I say that knowing that, and I don't mince words usually, it sucks being poor. I remember going through a summer without any money and you're kind of hungry. You're just surviving. It's hot outside, you don't have any AC, wherever you're staying, you're just living. But if there's anything somebody takes from my story, I hope it is that there's another side to this. There is something that is great about the path that you will go on. And frankly, to not ignore the resources around you. And you may say there are none. But walk into Thelma’s Kitchen, walk into a public library when this is all done, catch a bus. There are a lot more people around who care about your success than you may think. I was blessed to have them along the way, I wouldn't be here without them. It absolutely takes a village and know that there's that village out there.
Fr. Justin: Well, Mayor, I appreciate you sharing that. As we wrap up, how does Kansas City look different? How does Kansas City look different whether it's May 3, May 15, or September 15? How does Kansas City look different coming out of this crisis?
Mayor Lucas: We understand the need to invest in people more. We understand that we can take steps to try to save lives. I hope that also extends to the 150 homicides a year we have, the roughly 150 suicides we have per year. I hope it gets us to take action. I think it will. I plan to be a leader in that conversation and I hope more out there who have the time to watch these things and to think, engage as well. I do. It’s as easy as sending us an email or text, me or Father Justin. We listen. We're happy to change the world really. And it starts one step at a time.
Fr. Justin: Well, Mayor Quinton, I'm looking forward to watching you in leadership. I know you have a huge passion for making a social impact, not just leading through the same workaday life as the mayor. We're rooting for you. And I know that you really have the heart of the constituents, the 5,000 people a year that Reconciliation Services serves, but also you really have the heart of Kansas City. I know you're going to innovate and lead us through this. Again, I appreciate your time today. It's an honor to get to talk to you. I want to invite our listeners to take you up on that opportunity to call you on your cell phone to share the thoughts that you have about Kansas City. So how did they reach you if they want to share their story like you talked about?
Mayor Lucas: It's really easy. My email address is made to be easy. It is mayorq@kcmo.org. My cell phone number is 816-679-1662. Shoot me a text and I'd always be happy to talk.
Fr. Justin: Mayor Quinton Lucas, thanks so much for joining us today on The Social Leader. We'll look forward to talking to you soon. Thank you so much.
Mayor Lucas: Thank you. We'll see you.
Fr. Justin: Alright, ladies and gentlemen, you heard it right from Mayor Quinton Lucas. Had a great conversation about social impact, about leadership, about the future of Kansas City. Really a privilege to have him here. Remember that The Social Leader is a podcast that's sponsored by Reconciliation Services. RS is a community that's trying to bring about racial and economic reconciliation in Kansas City along Troost Avenue, one heart at a time. But more than that, we're interested in bringing people together, the rich, the poor, black and white, East and West, from all over the world who are interested in finding that third way. Realizing that we're going to have to move beyond the workaday world in order to make the social impact to become that great city that we want to be. And now's our opportunity. Make sure that you smash that “like” button. I love when people are engaging on social media. Leave your comments on Facebook or on YouTube. And make sure if you want to stay up to date with all of The Social Leader broadcasts that we're doing, please follow us on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on YouTube. Until next time, please stay in touch. Please help us at Reconciliation Services if you're nearby. And join us next week for the next episode of The Social Leader.